Goldsmith's "FIREWORKS" for the 4th and Beyond (2025)

This work should become a concert standard!

I'll say both the Telarc CDs released around the same time, the concert hall disc and the film music one, the performances by the LSO were very lacklustre, like they were phoning in their roles. The much touted sound recordings were very tinny, IMO. As another recording engineer who has worked with Jerry often, told me, 'I don't know what Bruce Botnick thought he was doing'.

This work should become a concert standard!

On second thought the "1812" could remain, but the Goldsmith should be included. I hate the Telarc recording, I heard Goldsmith conduct this work live and it was spectacular.

That wouldn't have been Mike Ross-Trevor by any chance? MR-T is an infinitely superior recording engineer to BB in my opinion. I wish he'd recorded these albums.

The two Telarc discs do, indeed, have absolutely appalling sound.

I also do not see or hear any problem with the sound quality!

Wait, are we talking about the Christus Apollo CD?

Wait, are we talking about the Christus Apollo CD?

you bet

I'm rather amazed people dislike the sound quality, let alone the LSO's performance on the album CA album.

That wouldn't have been Mike Ross-Trevor by any chance? MR-T is an infinitely superior recording engineer to BB in my opinion. I wish he'd recorded these albums.

The two Telarc discs do, indeed, have absolutely appalling sound.

That's a rather ridiculous conclusion - that Ross is a better engineer than BB - based on Two Telarc albums which, coincidentally, were recorded with the same DSD technology and mixed to multichannel. The two Telarc discs do sound different. To my ears, the differences reside in the pureness of the DSD signal, which, created a strange kind of ambience when played back in two-channel or multichannel. I took a look at the microphones used - which appear to be you standard complement for this kind of recording. But tinny? Anything but tinny to me. Perhaps a little much reverb at times and could have been tighter, but hey, maybe that's the way it was supposed to be?

Since you don't quote which recording engineer who provided you with this so called "quote/opinion", I'll take this as erroneous. Even if this opinion were perhaps "valid," it can only be assumed to apply to these particular two recordings. I think it was a pretty big risk for Jerry and Bruce to choose this recording format at the time. To date, I don't know of any other film composers or engineers who chose to record in this format - either for direct use in a film (STAR TREK NEMESIS, TIMELINE)* or concert works.

Either way, SACD is pretty much defunct. I think your objections are pretty much to the DSD/SACD methodology of these recordings rather than the engineering skill. On that point, I could understand where you are coming from. But BB has been around for a long time and I've enjoyed his recordings since the mid-1980's.

I think one has to take into consideration the music budgets and logistics when it comes to specific recordings. If you want to critize some really frustrating recordings, then go back to the late 1970's/early 1980's LP recordings mastered by LEN ENGEL. Holy crap, was this quite frustrating. Boy, did he love to over-use compression and gating on FIRST BLOOD, INCHON, THE FINAL CONFLICT. The later CD's that came out were a revelation, comnpared to those earlier LP's.

As far as Mike Ross is concerned, look, every new recording has its own unique set of challenges, limitations, and issues. I was never quite happy with KING SOLOMON'S MINES - I wished there was an opportunity to more tightly mike certain sections and present a better stereo seperation, but I understand conditions weren't very optimal to begin with -recording in Hungary - and that movie was a "cheapfest" from the beginning. In contrast, I think Ross did a wonderful job on TOTAL RECALL, trying to balance all of those electronics and the phrenetic orchestral playing. You have to make it work the best way that you can. I've spent hours at times trying to get the room ambience correct for just a five-piece Jazz ensemble, just because one studio was vastly more affordable to the band than another one. I had to make it work as best as possible. And it's always best practice to get it right accoustically, than screw around and fix it, after the fact, electronically. Sorry, a Roland DS-1, etc., will only help you so much.

MaxB

*To me, its sounds as if HOLLOW MAN, THE SUM OF ALL FEARS, THE LAST CASTLE, and LOONEY TUNES were also recorded in DSD. Esepcially, SUM OF ALL FEARS, which I have yet to find a piece of high-end equipment that it fails to sound amazing on.

Oh no, I'm basing it on a LOT more than that!!

Yeah, the digital pops on THE SUM OF ALL FEARS and the first pressing of THE LAST CASTLE sound absolutely awesome!!

Yeah, the digital pops on THE SUM OF ALL FEARS and the first pressing of THE LAST CASTLE sound absolutely awesome!!

Again, not an engineering issue, but a mastering issue. I don't hear any digital (or any for that matter) artifacts on SUM OF ALL FEARS, so I don't know what you'e talking about.

MaxB

Oh no, I'm basing it on a LOT more than that!!

Rubbish! You have not illustrated any specifics, other than two CD's of a very questionable CD format at best. I happen to think both are fine engineers - and it's based more than just listening to cd's and LP's.

I've actually heard some of their original multitracks (TOTAL RECALL and FIRST KNIGHT). It's night and day, compared to your perceptions based on the limited sound of CD's.

MaxB

Does anyone know if that's posted online somewhere?

MaxB

Well, duh, yes! That's because this thread is about FIREWORKS. You want more examples I'd be happy to provide them! I actually have, quite a few times, in the past.

THE MUMMY vs THE 13TH WARRIOR is a good example. One clear and sharp, the other thick and murky (to my ears)..